Open Forum. Post No.(1)

Post No.1

Following exchanges appeared in "virtual onTa" of www.mdmsin.com, starting on 27-06-2014.

On 27th June 2014 Shri. N. Pandurengan  posted this :-

"Onta rikhama padlaye"

"Avo, kaye voh amcha onta rikhama padlaye. Khoni(n) gamande nahitka? nahi manje(n) sarva loki(n) kamande aahetka? Onta kaali tevnuka voh. Kayi(n) livetha asaa. Kaayi(n) chaadi thrin sangaa. Ontande chaadi bhollathra paar bhesha asala. Khona chokata chaadi saangthantha paamana. Shri Vijendra Rao vin Shri Umerji Jagannatha Rao vin atha Chennaila aaletha. Dhohi(n) mille manje dhande chaadi bholthila. Ami aikuvya".

The above post is a typical example of curruption in our language. While the sentence formation is ok, the spelling of words has gone for a toss in most cases. The reason is simple. We have not seen how our words look in the written form and we do not write it in Devnagari script. So all sorts of phonetic distortions creep in while talking and writing (in Roman script).

I have re-written the passage in DM script as under.

अहो, काय अहो, अम्च ओंटा रिकाम पडलाहे ? कोणीं गांवांत॑ (गांमांत॑) नाहीतका ? नाही म्हणजे सर्व लोकीं कामांत आहेतका ? ओंटा खाली ठेवनाका अहो. कायीं लिव्हत असा. कायीं छाडी (चहाडी) तरीन सांगा. ओंटांत॑ छाडी बोलले तर॑ फार बेष असेल॑. कोण चोक्कोट छाडी सांगतांत पाहम्हणे. श्री विजेन्द्र रावीं श्री उमर्जी जगन्नाथ रावीं अत्ता चेन्नैला आलाहेत॑. दोघीं मिळ्ले म्हणजे दंड छाडी बोलतील॑. अम्ही ऐकूया.

The corrections are indicated below.

avo (अवो) and voh (ओ) corrected as aho (अहो)

rikhama (रिखाम) corrected as rikam (रिकाम)

padlaye (पड्लाये) corrected as padlahe (पडलाहे). (पडल॑ + आहे = पडलाहे )

khoni(n) (खोणीं) corrected as koNeen (कोणीं). (कोण + हीं(ईं) = कोणीं )

gamande (गामांद॑) corrected as gamanth (गांमांत॑ or गांवांत॑) - (गांमाच + आंत॑ = गांमांत॑ )

manje(n) मनजे corrected as mhaNje (म्हणजे)

kamande (कामांद॑) corrected as kamanth (कामांत॑) - (काम + आंत॑ = कामांत॑ )

kaali (काली) corrected as khaali (खाली)

tevnuka (ठेवनुका) corected as Tevnaka/Tivnaka (ठेवनाका / ठिवनाका)

livetha (लिवेत) corrected as livheth (लिव्हेत)

chaadi thrin (चाडीत्रिन) corrected as chhaDee thareen (छाडी तरीन) / चहाडी तरीन

ontande (ओंटांद॑) corrected as oNTaanth ओंटांत॑ - (ओंटा + आंत॑ = ओंटांत॑ )

bhollathra (भोल्लत्र॑) corrected as बोलले तर॑

paar (पार) corrected as phaar (फार)

bhesha (भेष) corrected as beSh (बेष). (बेष is not derived from सभाष. In SM the word is बेश )

paamana (पामणे) corrected as pahmhNe (पाहम्हणे)

aaletha (आलेते) corrected as aalaaheth (आलाहेत॑)

Dhohi(n) (धोहीं) corrected as dogheen (दोघीं). (दोघे + हीं(ईं) = दोघीं )

dhande (धंड॑) corrected as danDe (दंड॑). दंड॑ is a shortened version of उदंड॑, also written as उजंड॑. In DM there are a few more examples where द and ज are inter-used.

bholthila (भोलतील॑) corrected as बोलतील॑. (बोलणे and not भोलणे)

ami (अमी) corrected as अम्ही

aikuvya (ऐकुव्या) corrected as ऐकूया. ( the correct usages are ; अम्ही एक गाणे ऐकूया = we shall hear a song. अम्ही तला एक गाणे ऐकूव्या = we shall make him hear a song )

Subsequently the following exchanges took place between me, Manasi Kelkar and NP.

Post by N. Pandurengan

Dear Shri Ananda Rao Vashista,

It is really fantastic to go through your transcription. Nice and useful correction. This is the effect of not speaking the mother tongue with our children nay with our kith and kins.. You have done a wonderful job. Your correction itself would serve as Thesaurus of our language. You may compile such corrections and record in the web page for reference.

Thanking you Sir,

Yours

N. Pandurengan

Post by Manasi Kelkar

Ananda Rao sir, the thing that you are referring to as corruption of TM is not actually corruption but the beauty of your language.

No knowledge of script is the main reason behind the changes that have taken place in pronunciation of TM. of course some words are mis-spellt, but then the way he has written it throws light on how you pronounce it generally,,i.e. in the flow of speech. as a linguist, i would request you to channel your efforts for documenting the language in its unique form.

thanking you.

Manasi Kelkar

Post by ARV

Manasi Kelkar, you are partly correct. I admit, the word “corruption” is not proper. But a certain amount of standardization is required for putting the language back on track. My attempts are aimed at this standardization. It is not aimed at recording those “variations” which stem from the lack of knowledge of the Devnagari script. Let me explain. If you ask our people to write a few sentences in Roman script you will find that for some of the words, different people might use different spellings, depending on how it is pronounced in each family. These variations arise essentially from the lack of knowledge of the script. The way I look at the issue is, with the script as the anchor, these variations need to be filtered to bring about a standardization. This is the strategy I have used in my project "Dakshini Marathi Punarudharini".

I shall quote from a post I made on 15-04-2014 in Virtual OnTa, in response to one of your remarks :-

“…… several words are phonetically mispronounced by our people, thanks to the Tamil background from which we come and thanks (sic) to the phonetic inadequacy of Tamil script, the only Indian language most of us have studied. In the above background my efforts are aimed at restoring DM (पुनरुद्धार). While translating, I am careful to structure the sentences in such a way that our grammar and syntax are retained. But you will find many examples of expressions stated in a manner very similar to Tamil. However, many words which are mispronounced by us are written by me in as refined a form as possible, without diluting the essential flavour of DM. In other words, when you read my translations, what you see is how I would like DM to appear in print. This is how DM of the 21st century will look in its pure form. (According to me this is the only way forward, if we want to restore DM.) For reasons stated earlier by me, it may not be how it is spoken by many DMs……”

So, while I appreciate your requirement, my focus is different. “The beauty of our language” which you talk about, will be maintained in my efforts through its peculiar syntax, grammar, Tamil like usages and of course, through the old words forgotten in Standard Marathi. You also talk about “the way he has written”. In my re-writing I have just reproduced his sentences verbatim, but with “corrected” spellings. So the flavor of DM is maintained.

ARV

Post by ARV

To, Shri. N. Pandurengan

Thank you for your nice words. The reason I made the above post was only to show a sample. We all know the reasons for the phonetic variations and the consequent differences in spellings when we write in Roman script. I am afraid, if I start "correcting" all the posts done by our fellow members I will become a very "unpopular" member ! Still, your idea is great. In fact I have saved all the translations and transliterations of Shri. Rajaram Ramachandran's writings in a separate folder. May be at a latter date it might serve the purpose you have in mind. Shri. RR is on board with me on this issue.

with warm regards

ARV

Post by N. Pandurengan

There are several words in DM which are used by different families or area people in different ways. For e.g. for shirt we say 'angi' . Some use the word 'jacketa'. For cloth we say 'paduka'. others say 'kapada'. For and or still we say 'anki(n), other say 'mavuna'. Some words are not much in vogue now adays like 'krithrama' for doing something cunning. Mrs. Kelkar and yourself can prepare a glossary of words for reference while we try to write in DM.

N. Pandurengan

Post by Manasi Kelkar

Anada Rao Vasistha sir,

Thanks for explanation. I feel your view is correct. earlier, I was just thinking of all these writings(by R.R. and N.Pandurengan) as data on which I can do experiments. But, you made me realise that I need to look even more seriously, as far as need for language maintenance is concerned. Thanks once again.

Manasi Kelkar

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